Gothams Club of New York: Difference between revisions

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|Club Name=Gothams, New York Ball Club and Washington Ball Club
|Club Name=Gothams, New York Ball Club and Washington Ball Club
|Type of Date=Year
|Type of Date=Year
|Date=1837/03/01
|Date=1837/01/01
|Is Foundation Date=Yes
|Is Foundation Date=Yes
|Date of Dissolution Type=Day
|Date of Dissolution Type=Day
Line 12: Line 12:
|Borough=Manhattan
|Borough=Manhattan
|City=New York
|City=New York
|Description=<p>The convoluted tale of the beginning of organized baseball may best be exemplified by the Gotham Club of New York, whose own genesis can be linked directly to William Rufus Wheaton. In an 1887 interview, Wheaton told an interviewer that he wrote down the rules for play for the club in 1837. According to John Thorn, "At some point in the early 1840s the Gotham club was renamed the New York Ball Club, retaining most if not all of its Gotham members. The New Yorks then spun off the Knickerbockers, as Wheaton relates in the 1887 interview. The Gotham, meanwhile, continued to play ball among themselves from 1845 to 1849, just as the Knickerbocker and Eagle clubs appear to have done. In 1850 those Gotham and New York members who had not attached to the Knickerbockers in Hoboken reconstituted themselves as, yet again, the Washingtons, playing at the Red House Grounds (&ldquo;a most comfortable &lsquo;asylum for distressed husbands,&rsquo;&rdquo; offered <em>Spirit of the Times) </em>at Second Avenue and 105th Street in New York.</p>
|Description=<p>Perhaps the most convoluted of all tales surrounding the beginning of organized baseball may best be exemplified by the Gotham Club of New York, whose own genesis can be linked directly to William Rufus Wheaton. In an 1887 interview, Wheaton told an interviewer that he wrote down the rules for play for the club in 1837. According to John Thorn, "At some point in the early 1840s the Gotham club was renamed the New York Ball Club, retaining most if not all of its Gotham members. The New Yorks then spun off the Knickerbockers, as Wheaton relates in the 1887 interview. The Gotham, meanwhile, continued to play ball among themselves from 1845 to 1849, just as the Knickerbocker and Eagle clubs appear to have done. In 1850 those Gotham and New York members who had not attached to the Knickerbockers in Hoboken reconstituted themselves as, yet again, the Washingtons, playing at the Red House Grounds (&ldquo;a most comfortable &lsquo;asylum for distressed husbands,&rsquo;&rdquo; offered <em>Spirit of the Times) </em>at Second Avenue and 105th Street in New York.</p>
<p>In 1851 this Washington Base Ball Club challenged the Knickerbockers to match games that have been preserved in the historical record. In 1852 the club reverted to its old name of Gothams, 'consolidating with' the Washingtons."</p>
<p>In 1851 this Washington Base Ball Club challenged the Knickerbockers to match games that have been preserved in the historical record. In 1852 the club reverted to its old name of Gothams, 'consolidating with' the Washingtons."</p>
<p>This club is the same as the one that played against the Knickerbockers on June 19, 1846, although at the time they were going by the name New York Club.</p>
<p>This club is the same as the one that played against the Knickerbockers on June 19, 1846, although at the time they were going by the name New York Club.</p>
|Sources=<p>Morris, Peter, et. al., Editors (2013) <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a title="Base Ball Founders; the Clubs, Players and Cities of the Northeast that Established the Game" href="Base_Ball_Founders;_the_Clubs,_Players_and_Cities_of_the_Northeast_that_Established_the_Game">Base Ball Founders; the Clubs, Players and Cities of the Northeast that Established the Game</a></span>. Jefferson, NC, McFarland, pg. 51.</p>
|Sources=<p>Morris, Peter, et. al., Editors (2013) <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a title="Base Ball Founders; the Clubs, Players and Cities of the Northeast that Established the Game" href="Base_Ball_Founders;_the_Clubs,_Players_and_Cities_of_the_Northeast_that_Established_the_Game">Base Ball Founders; the Clubs, Players and Cities of the Northeast that Established the Game</a></span>. Jefferson, NC, McFarland, pg. 51.</p>
<p>Thorn, John (2011) <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a title="Baseball in the Garden of Eden: The Secret History of the Early Game" href="Baseball_in_the_Garden_of_Eden:_The_Secret_History_of_the_Early_Game">Baseball in the Garden of Eden: The Secret History of the Early Game</a></span>. Simon and Schuster.</p>
<p>Thorn, John (2011) <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a title="Baseball in the Garden of Eden: The Secret History of the Early Game" href="Baseball_in_the_Garden_of_Eden:_The_Secret_History_of_the_Early_Game">Baseball in the Garden of Eden: The Secret History of the Early Game</a></span>. Simon and Schuster.</p>
|Has Source On Hand=No
|Comment=<p>Despite the conflicting views as to the pedigree of the team, for the time being all players who appeared with either the 1837 or 1853 incarnations of the Gothams, as well as the 1851-1852 Washingtons, appear on this page.&nbsp;</p>
|Comment=<p>Despite the conflicting views as to the pedigree of the team, for the time being all players who appeared with either the 1837 or 1853 incarnations of the Gothams, as well as the 1851-1852 Washingtons, appear on this page.&nbsp;</p>
|Has Source On Hand=No
<p>The 19thcbaseball website says this club played two games against the Knickerbockers in 1852. No score is given.</p>
|Reviewed=Yes
|Reviewed=Yes
|Entered by=Ralph Carhart
|Entered by=Ralph Carhart
|Has Supplemental Text=No
|Is No Later Than=Yes
|Is No Later Than=Yes
|First Newspaper Mention=3/1/1852
|First Newspaper Mention=1852/03/01
|First Newspaper Mention Date Type=Month
|First Newspaper Mention Date Type=Month
}}
}}

Latest revision as of 06:33, 9 January 2023

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Nick Name Gothams, New York Ball Club and Washington Ball Club
Earliest Known Date 1837 (Foundation Date)
Location New York, Manhattan, NY, United States
Description

Perhaps the most convoluted of all tales surrounding the beginning of organized baseball may best be exemplified by the Gotham Club of New York, whose own genesis can be linked directly to William Rufus Wheaton. In an 1887 interview, Wheaton told an interviewer that he wrote down the rules for play for the club in 1837. According to John Thorn, "At some point in the early 1840s the Gotham club was renamed the New York Ball Club, retaining most if not all of its Gotham members. The New Yorks then spun off the Knickerbockers, as Wheaton relates in the 1887 interview. The Gotham, meanwhile, continued to play ball among themselves from 1845 to 1849, just as the Knickerbocker and Eagle clubs appear to have done. In 1850 those Gotham and New York members who had not attached to the Knickerbockers in Hoboken reconstituted themselves as, yet again, the Washingtons, playing at the Red House Grounds (“a most comfortable ‘asylum for distressed husbands,’” offered Spirit of the Times) at Second Avenue and 105th Street in New York.

In 1851 this Washington Base Ball Club challenged the Knickerbockers to match games that have been preserved in the historical record. In 1852 the club reverted to its old name of Gothams, 'consolidating with' the Washingtons."

This club is the same as the one that played against the Knickerbockers on June 19, 1846, although at the time they were going by the name New York Club.

Sources

Morris, Peter, et. al., Editors (2013) Base Ball Founders; the Clubs, Players and Cities of the Northeast that Established the Game. Jefferson, NC, McFarland, pg. 51.

Thorn, John (2011) Baseball in the Garden of Eden: The Secret History of the Early Game. Simon and Schuster.

Comment

Despite the conflicting views as to the pedigree of the team, for the time being all players who appeared with either the 1837 or 1853 incarnations of the Gothams, as well as the 1851-1852 Washingtons, appear on this page. 

The 19thcbaseball website says this club played two games against the Knickerbockers in 1852. No score is given.

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Entered by Ralph Carhart
Entry Origin Sabrpedia

Win/Loss Records As Far As We Now Know

Warning: Users should not rely on a team's won-loss record as a reflection of its "standing" among all base ball clubs. Team schedules were not balanced, and a good record against mostly weak opponents does not signify a leading club.

Year Games Wins Losses Ties
1845 4 Played 3 Won 0 Lost 0 Tied
1846 1 Played 1 Won 0 Lost 0 Tied
1851 2 Played 0 Won 2 Lost 0 Tied
1853 3 Played 0 Won 3 Lost 0 Tied
1854 5 Played 1 Won 3 Lost 1 Tied
1855 7 Played 5 Won 1 Lost 0 Tied
1856 8 Played 5 Won 1 Lost 1 Tied
1857 8 Played 4 Won 2 Lost 1 Tied
1858 8 Played 1 Won 7 Lost 0 Tied
1859 7 Played 3 Won 4 Lost 0 Tied
1860 13 Played 8 Won 1 Lost 4 Tied
1865 2 Played 2 Won 0 Lost 0 Tied
1866 1 Played 1 Won 0 Lost 0 Tied

Ballgames

Page Date City Borough State Team 1 Team 2 Score First in Contributor
Ballgame 1845-10-10 Brooklyn Brooklyn NY Gothams Club of New York Brooklyn Base Ball Club 22 - 1 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1845-10-21 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Brooklyn Base Ball Club 24 - 4 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1845-10-23 Brooklyn Brooklyn NY Gothams Club of New York Brooklyn Base Ball Club 37 - 19 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1845-11-10 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 24 - 23
Ballgame 1846-06-19 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York 23 - 1 NJ First Match Game Under NY Rules Larry McCray & Craig Waff
Ballgame 1851-06-03 Harlem Manhattan NY Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 21 - 11 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1851-06-17 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 22 - 20 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1853-07-01 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 26 - 14 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1853-07-05 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 21 - 12 Ralph Carhart
Ballgame 1853-10-14 Harlem Manhattan NY Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 21 - 14 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1854-06-30 Harlem Manhattan NY Gothams Club of New York Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York 16 - 21 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1854-09-20 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 24 - 13 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1854-10-24 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Eagle Base Ball Club of New York 21 - 14 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1854-10-26 Harlem Manhattan NY Gothams Club of New York Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York 12 - 12 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1854-11-03 Harlem Manhattan NY Eagle Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 23 - 15 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1855-06-01 Harlem Manhattan NY Gothams Club of New York Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York 21 - 12 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1855-06-22 Harlem Manhattan NY Gothams Club of New York Eagle Base Ball Club of New York 21 - 3 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1855-09-05 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Empire Club of New York 25 - 4 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1855-09-13 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 22 - 7 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1855-10-01 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Eagle Base Ball Club of New York 22 - 11 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1855-10-05 Harlem Manhattan NY Gothams Club of New York Empire Club of New York 24 - 9 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1855-11-29 Harlem Manhattan NY Gothams Club of New York Baltic Club of New York Craig Waff
Ballgame 1856-07-08 Harlem Manhattan NY Gothams Club of New York Baltic Club of New York 25 - 2 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1856-08-08 Harlem Manhattan NY Gothams Club of New York Club of Newark 23 - 8 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1856-09-11 Bedford, Long Island Brooklyn NY Atlantic Club of Brooklyn Gothams Club of New York Craig Waff
Ballgame 1856-09-24 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Eagle Base Ball Club of New York 26 - 18 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1856-09-26 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Eagle Base Ball Club of New York 18 - 18 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1856-10-17 Harlem Manhattan NY Eagle Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 6 - 2 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1856-10-24 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Eagle Base Ball Club of New York 29 - 5 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1856-10-31 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Eagle Base Ball Club of New York 23 - 4 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1857-07-10 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Eagle Base Ball Club of New York 43 - 20 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1857-07-23 Brooklyn Brooklyn NY Gothams Club of New York Atlantic Club of Brooklyn Craig Waff
Ballgame 1857-09-03 Bedford, Long Island Brooklyn NY Atlantic Club of Brooklyn Gothams Club of New York 41 - 11 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1857-09-08 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Eagle Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 15 - 9 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1857-09-16 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Empire Club of New York 19 - 17 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1857-10-03 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Empire Club of New York 24 - 24 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1857-10-09 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Eagle Base Ball Club of New York 25 - 19 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1857-10-30 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Atlantic Club of Brooklyn 24 - 19 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1858-08-31 Greenpoint Brooklyn NY Eckford Club of Brooklyn Gothams Club of New York 23 - 17 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1858-09-03 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Empire Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 22 - 11 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1858-09-07 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Empire Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 40 - 26 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1858-09-14 Brooklyn Brooklyn NY Excelsior Club of Brooklyn Gothams Club of New York 24 - 13 Ralph Carhart
Ballgame 1858-09-27 Williamsburg Brooklyn NY Putnam Club of Brooklyn Gothams Club of New York 30 - 28 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1858-10-19 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Eckford Club of Brooklyn 23 - 6 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1858-10-25 Bedford, Long Island Brooklyn NY Atlantic Club of Brooklyn Gothams Club of New York 31 - 17 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1858-10-27 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Empire Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 23 - 14 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1859-07-29 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Eagle Base Ball Club of New York 36 - 22 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1859-08-12 South Brooklyn Brooklyn NY Eckford Club of Brooklyn Gothams Club of New York 17 - 10 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1859-08-19 New York Manhattan NY Eagle Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 12 - 11 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1859-09-07 Newark Essex County NJ Gothams Club of New York Newark 21 - 13 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1859-09-15 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Mutual Club of New York 37 - 25 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1859-09-29 Brooklyn Brooklyn NY Excelsior Club of South Brooklyn Gothams Club of New York 37 - 12 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1859-10-04 New York Manhattan NY Eagle Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 25 - 21 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-06-26 Newark Essex County NJ Gothams Club of New York Newark 26 - 15 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-07-10 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Eagle Base Ball Club of New York 46 - 10 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-07-10 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Eagle Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 18 - 18 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-07-17 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Mutual Club of New York 25 - 25 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-07-23 New York Manhattan NY Gothams Club of New York Baltic Club of New York 35 - 16 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-07-24 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Jefferson Club of New York 13 - 13 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-08-22 Brooklyn Brooklyn NY Independent Club of Brooklyn Gothams Club of New York 18 - 12 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-08-29 Brooklyn Brooklyn NY Gothams Club of New York Enterprise Club of Brooklyn 21 - 15 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-09-04 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Mutual Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 18 - 18 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-09-11 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Eagle Base Ball Club of New York 25 - 11 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-09-18 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Independent Club of Brooklyn 19 - 13 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-09-27 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Mutual Club of New York 19 - 12 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1860-10-08 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Jefferson Club of New York 22 - 3 Craig Waff
Ballgame 1865-08-17 New York Manhattan NY Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 13 - 58 Ralph Carhart
Ballgame 1865-10-05 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Knickerbocker Base Ball Club of New York Gothams Club of New York 11 - 28 Ralph Carhart
Ballgame 1866-07-31 Hoboken Hudson County NJ Gothams Club of New York Olympic Club of Paterson 21 - 10 John Zinn

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Players

Player Years Roles Edit Association with Club
Abraham W. Tucker
Albert Squires
Andrew Gibney 1865-1866
Andrew J. Dupignac 1857, 1860-1861 Later Officer
Andrew Whiteside
Austin D. Thompson
Charles C. Commerford 1849-1857
Charles Davis
Charles H. Beadle 1864-1870 Later Officer
Charles Ludlow Case 1845-1846
Charles S. Riblet
Clarence A. Burtis 1859-1860, 1862-1865, 1888
Cornelius Stokem
Cornelius V. Anderson 1850-1851 Later Officer
Edward Bonnell
Edward G. Saltzman 1852-1856
Franklin Ransom 1846
Gabriel Van Cott
George H. Franklin 1857
George Washington Smith 1846
George Wright 1863-1865
Griswold 1857
Hackett
Harry B. Venn 1845
Harry Wright 1863-1864
Henry Mortimer Platt 1854
J.A.P. Hopkins
James B. Mingay 1861-1864
James Fisher
James Lee 1837
James Shepard 1860
John Connell
John Drohan
John Lalor 1845, 1853
John McCosker 1856-1857
John Miller 1837
John Murphy 1837
John Van Buskirk Hatfield 1865
Johnson 1845, 1857
Joseph Conselyea Pinckney 1856, 1857
Joseph E. Ebling
Leonard G. Cohen 1864-1866
Lewis F. Wadsworth 1852-1853, 1857-1858
Milton B. Sweet
N.W. Redmond
Nicholas Turner 1857-1858
Oscar Teed
Patsy Dockney 1864-1865
Peter Roe
Philip Sheridan 1854-1857
Richard H. Thorn 1858, 1862
Robert F. Winslow 1845-1846, 1853
Robert F. Winslow Jr. 1853, 1857
Robert Forsyth
Ruben Henry Cudlipp 1856-1858 Later Officer
Seaman Lichtenstein 1857
Theodore S. Van Cott
Thomas Van Cott 1857 Key Player
Tooker 1857-1858
Trenchard 1846, 1851
Tuche 1852
William F. Burns 1855-1856
William H. Tucker
William Hathaway Van Cott 1858
William P. Wright 1865
William Shepard 1860
William Vail 1857
William W. De Milt
William Rufus Wheaton 1837-1844 Founder

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Playing Fields

Field Years Edit Association with Club
Red House 1849
Elysian Fields
Madison Square Park 1837

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Comments

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