1845.16: Difference between revisions
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|Year=1845 | |Year=1845 | ||
|Year Number=16 | |Year Number=16 | ||
|Headline=Brooklyn 22, New York 1: The First-Ever "Modern" | |Headline=Brooklyn 22, New York 1: The First-Ever "Modern" Base Ball Match? | ||
|Salience=1 | |Salience=1 | ||
|Tags=Pre-Knicks NYC, | |Tags=Pre-Knicks NYC, | ||
|Location= | |Location=Brooklyn NY | ||
|Country=United States | |Country=United States | ||
|Coordinates=40.6933695, -73.9758413 | |Coordinates=40.6933695, -73.9758413 | ||
Line 12: | Line 12: | ||
|Modern Address=Myrtle and Portland Avenues | |Modern Address=Myrtle and Portland Avenues | ||
|Game=Base Ball | |Game=Base Ball | ||
|Immediacy of Report=Contemporary | |||
|Age of Players=Adult | |Age of Players=Adult | ||
|Text=<p>[A]"The Base Ball match between eight Brooklyn players, and eight players of New York, came off on Friday on the grounds of the Union Star Cricket Club. The Yorkers were singularly unfortunate in scoring but one run in their three innings. Brooklyn scored 22 and of course came off winners."</p> | |Text=<p>[A]"The Base Ball match between eight Brooklyn players, and eight players of New York, came off on Friday on the grounds of the Union Star Cricket Club. The Yorkers were singularly unfortunate in scoring but one run in their three innings. Brooklyn scored 22 and of course came off winners."</p> | ||
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<p>[C] Earlier cited in Tom Melville, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">The Tented Field: A History of Cricket in America</span> (Bowling Green State University Press, 1998), page 168, note 38.</p> | <p>[C] Earlier cited in Tom Melville, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">The Tented Field: A History of Cricket in America</span> (Bowling Green State University Press, 1998), page 168, note 38.</p> | ||
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"> </span></p> | <p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"> </span></p> | ||
| | |Comment=<p> </p> | ||
<p>[] Richard Hershberger adds that one can not be sure that these were the same sides that played on October 21/25, noting that the <em>Morning Post</em> refers here just to New York "players", and not to the New York Club.</p> | |||
<p>[] See also [[1845.4]] for the October 21/25 games.</p> | |||
<p>[] John Thorn, 11/16/2022, points out that "<span>Eight to the side was the norm in 1845, as Adams had not yet created the position of shortstop."</span></p> | |||
<p><span>[] In January 2023, a further question arose: Was this game played by modern rules? Could base ball's first known match game have been played in Brooklyn . . . . and on a cricket pitch? It was evidently played to 21 runs, and its eight players preceded the invention of a 9th, a shortstop. </span></p> | |||
<p><span>Bob Tholkes, to Protoball, 1/30/2023: "<span>It’s a judgement. Wheaton, the writer of the Knick rules umpired the later two [1845 matches] so I’ve assumed they were played by them…don’t know that about the first game." </span><br /></span></p> | |||
<p> </p> | |||
|Query=<p>Can we find more hints about the rules that may have governed this match game?</p> | |||
|Source Image=True Sun Closeup 1845.jpeg | |Source Image=True Sun Closeup 1845.jpeg | ||
|Submitted by= | |Submitted by=(A) Richard Hershberger; (B) John Thorn | ||
|Submission Note= | |Submission Note=(A) via email 11/3/2008; (B) image donated 11/16/2022 | ||
|Reviewed=Yes | |Reviewed=Yes | ||
|Has Supplemental Text=No | |Has Supplemental Text=No | ||
}} | }} |
Latest revision as of 08:11, 31 January 2023
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Brooklyn 22, New York 1: The First-Ever "Modern" Base Ball Match?
Salience | Prominent |
---|---|
Tags | Pre-Knicks NYCPre-Knicks NYC |
Location | Brooklyn NYBrooklyn NY |
City/State/Country: | Brooklyn, NY, United States |
Modern Address | Myrtle and Portland Avenues |
Game | Base BallBase Ball |
Immediacy of Report | Contemporary |
Age of Players | AdultAdult |
Holiday | |
Notables | |
Text | [A]"The Base Ball match between eight Brooklyn players, and eight players of New York, came off on Friday on the grounds of the Union Star Cricket Club. The Yorkers were singularly unfortunate in scoring but one run in their three innings. Brooklyn scored 22 and of course came off winners."
[B] On 11/11/2008, Lee Oxford discovered identical text in a second NY newspaper, which included this detail: "After this game had been decided, a match at single wicket cricket came off between two members of the Union Star Club - Foster and Boyd. Foster scored 11 the first and 1 the second innings. Boyd came off victor by scoring 16 the first innings."
[C] "Though the [base ball] matches played between the Brooklyn and New York clubs on 21 and 25 October 1845 are generally recognized as being the earliest games in the "modern" era, they were, in fact, preceded by an even earlier game between those two clubs on October 12." [In fact this game was played on October 11.] Thanks to Tim Johnson [email, 12/29/2008] for triggering our search for the missing game. See also chron entries 1845.4 and 1845.5.
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Sources | [A] New York Morning News, Oct. 13, 1845, p.2. [B]The True Sun (New York City), Monday, October 13, 1845, page 2, column 5. This text also appears in John Thorn's, Chapter 3, "The Cradle of Baseball," in Baseball in the Garden of Eden, page 78. On 11/16/2022, John submitted an image of the True Sun posted here. [C] Earlier cited in Tom Melville, The Tented Field: A History of Cricket in America (Bowling Green State University Press, 1998), page 168, note 38.
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Warning | |
Comment |
[] Richard Hershberger adds that one can not be sure that these were the same sides that played on October 21/25, noting that the Morning Post refers here just to New York "players", and not to the New York Club. [] See also 1845.4 for the October 21/25 games. [] John Thorn, 11/16/2022, points out that "Eight to the side was the norm in 1845, as Adams had not yet created the position of shortstop." [] In January 2023, a further question arose: Was this game played by modern rules? Could base ball's first known match game have been played in Brooklyn . . . . and on a cricket pitch? It was evidently played to 21 runs, and its eight players preceded the invention of a 9th, a shortstop. Bob Tholkes, to Protoball, 1/30/2023: "It’s a judgement. Wheaton, the writer of the Knick rules umpired the later two [1845 matches] so I’ve assumed they were played by them…don’t know that about the first game." Edit with form to add a comment |
Query | Can we find more hints about the rules that may have governed this match game? Edit with form to add a query |
Source Image | |
External Number | |
Submitted by | (A) Richard Hershberger; (B) John Thorn |
Submission Note | (A) via email 11/3/2008; (B) image donated 11/16/2022 |
Has Supplemental Text |
Comments
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