1844.15: Difference between revisions
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|Year=1844 | |Year=1844 | ||
|Year Number=15 | |Year Number=15 | ||
|Headline=Whigs 81 | |Headline=Whigs 81 -- Loco Focos 10, in "Political" Contest Near Canadian Border | ||
|Salience=2 | |Salience=2 | ||
|Country=US | |Country=US | ||
| Line 11: | Line 11: | ||
|Age of Players=Adult | |Age of Players=Adult | ||
|Text=<p>"A matched, political game of bass Ball came off in this village on Friday last. Twelve Whigs on one side, and twelve Loco Focos on the other. Rules of the game, one knock and catch out, each one out for himself, each side one inns. The Whigs counted 81 and the Locos 10. The game passed off very pleasantly, and our political opponents, we must say, bore the defeat admirably."</p> | |Text=<p>"A matched, political game of bass Ball came off in this village on Friday last. Twelve Whigs on one side, and twelve Loco Focos on the other. Rules of the game, one knock and catch out, each one out for himself, each side one inns. The Whigs counted 81 and the Locos 10. The game passed off very pleasantly, and our political opponents, we must say, bore the defeat admirably."</p> | ||
<p><em>Note:</em> The Whigs were a major political party in this era, and the Loco Focos were then a splinter group | <p><em>Note:</em> The Whigs were a major political party in this era, and the Loco Focos were then a splinter group within the opposing Democratic Party.</p> | ||
|Sources=<p><em>Frontier Sentinel</em> [Ogdensburg, NY], April 23, 1844, page 3, column 1.</p> | |Sources=<p><em>Frontier Sentinel</em> [Ogdensburg, NY], April 23, 1844, page 3, column 1.</p> | ||
|Comment=<p>The <em>Frontier Sentinel</em> was published 1844-1847 in Ogdensburg (St. Lawrence County) NY.</p> | |Comment=<p>The <em>Frontier Sentinel</em> was published 1844-1847 in Ogdensburg (St. Lawrence County) NY.</p> | ||
<p>Ogdensburg [1853 population "about 6500"] is about 60 miles [NE] | <p>Ogdensburg [1853 population was "about 6500"] is about 60 miles downriver [NE] on the St. Lawrence River from Lake Ontario. It is about 60 miles south of Ottawa, about 120 miles north of Syracuse, and about 125 miles SW (upriver) of Montreal. Its first railroad would arrive in 1850.</p> | ||
<p>The HOF's Tom Shieber, who submitted this find, notes that this squib may just be metaphorical in nature, and that no ballplaying actually occurred. But why then report a plausible game score? </p> | <p>The HOF's Tom Shieber, who submitted this find, notes that this squib may just be metaphorical in nature, and that no ballplaying had actually occurred. But why then report a plausible game score? </p> | ||
<p> </p> | <p> </p> | ||
<p> </p> | <p> </p> | ||
|Query=<p>Comment is welcome on the | |Query=<p>Comment is welcome on the interpretation of the three cryptic rule descriptions for this 12-player game.</p> | ||
<p>[1] "One knock and catch out?" Could this be taken to define one-out-side-out innings? Or, that ticks counted as outs if caught behind the batter? Or something else?</p> | <p>[1] "One knock and catch out?" Could this be taken to define one-out-side-out innings? Or, that ticks counted as outs if caught behind the batter? Or something else? <strong>Note: </strong>Richard Hershberger points out that 1OSO rules could not have likely allowed the scoring of 81 runs with no outs. That would imply that the clubs may have used the All-Our-Side-Out rule.</p> | ||
<p>[2] "Each one out for himself?" Could batters continue in the batting order until retired? That, then, might imply the use of an all-out-side-out inning format</p> | <p>[2] "Each one out for himself?" Could batters continue in the batting order until retired? That too, then, might imply the use of an all-out-side-out inning format</p> | ||
<p>[3] "Each side one inns?" | <p>[3] "Each side one inns?" So the Whigs made those 81 "counts" in a single inning? </p> | ||
<p>Richard Hershberger | <p>Richard Hershberger also surmises that the first two rules are to be conjoined: "One knock and catch out, each one out for himself." That would simply declare that caught fly balls (and, possibly, caught one-bound hits?) were to be considered outs; but were there any known variants games for which such catches would <strong>not</strong> be considered outs? </p> | ||
|Submitted by=Tom Shieber, 4/24/2015 | |Submitted by=Tom Shieber, 4/24/2015 | ||
|Reviewed=Yes | |Reviewed=Yes | ||
|Has Supplemental Text=No | |Has Supplemental Text=No | ||
}} | }} | ||
Revision as of 14:33, 7 May 2015
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Whigs 81 -- Loco Focos 10, in "Political" Contest Near Canadian Border
| Salience | Noteworthy |
|---|---|
| Tags | |
| Location | |
| City/State/Country: | Ogdensburg, NY, US |
| Modern Address | |
| Game | Bass BallBass Ball |
| Immediacy of Report | Contemporary |
| Age of Players | AdultAdult |
| Holiday | |
| Notables | |
| Text | "A matched, political game of bass Ball came off in this village on Friday last. Twelve Whigs on one side, and twelve Loco Focos on the other. Rules of the game, one knock and catch out, each one out for himself, each side one inns. The Whigs counted 81 and the Locos 10. The game passed off very pleasantly, and our political opponents, we must say, bore the defeat admirably." Note: The Whigs were a major political party in this era, and the Loco Focos were then a splinter group within the opposing Democratic Party. |
| Sources | Frontier Sentinel [Ogdensburg, NY], April 23, 1844, page 3, column 1. |
| Warning | |
| Comment | The Frontier Sentinel was published 1844-1847 in Ogdensburg (St. Lawrence County) NY. Ogdensburg [1853 population was "about 6500"] is about 60 miles downriver [NE] on the St. Lawrence River from Lake Ontario. It is about 60 miles south of Ottawa, about 120 miles north of Syracuse, and about 125 miles SW (upriver) of Montreal. Its first railroad would arrive in 1850. The HOF's Tom Shieber, who submitted this find, notes that this squib may just be metaphorical in nature, and that no ballplaying had actually occurred. But why then report a plausible game score?
Edit with form to add a comment |
| Query | Comment is welcome on the interpretation of the three cryptic rule descriptions for this 12-player game. [1] "One knock and catch out?" Could this be taken to define one-out-side-out innings? Or, that ticks counted as outs if caught behind the batter? Or something else? Note: Richard Hershberger points out that 1OSO rules could not have likely allowed the scoring of 81 runs with no outs. That would imply that the clubs may have used the All-Our-Side-Out rule. [2] "Each one out for himself?" Could batters continue in the batting order until retired? That too, then, might imply the use of an all-out-side-out inning format [3] "Each side one inns?" So the Whigs made those 81 "counts" in a single inning? Richard Hershberger also surmises that the first two rules are to be conjoined: "One knock and catch out, each one out for himself." That would simply declare that caught fly balls (and, possibly, caught one-bound hits?) were to be considered outs; but were there any known variants games for which such catches would not be considered outs? Edit with form to add a query |
| Source Image | [[Image:|left|thumb]] |
| External Number | |
| Submitted by | Tom Shieber, 4/24/2015 |
| Submission Note | |
| Has Supplemental Text |
1844.15 Whigs 81 -- Loco Focos 10, in "Political" Contest Near Canadian Border"
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