1858.2: Difference between revisions

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<p>I believe that there is the general belief that the Union Grounds in Williamsburgh were the first enclosed baseball grounds. Should we rethink that?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p>
<p>I believe that there is the general belief that the Union Grounds in Williamsburgh were the first enclosed baseball grounds. Should we rethink that?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Tom&nbsp;Gilbert,&nbsp;4:29 PM:</span></p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Tom&nbsp;Gilbert,&nbsp;4:29 PM:</span></p>
<p><span>I don't think so -- the mere existence of a rail fence surrounding or partially surrounding the Excelsiors' grounds in Red Hook does not make it a ballpark in any sense. the Union Grounds had stands, concessions, bathrooms, dressing rooms - and most important: it regularly charged admission - this was the key reason for the fence. the union grounds was the first enclosed baseball grounds in the only significant sense of the wo</span></p>
<p><span>I don't think so -- the mere existence of a rail fence surrounding or partially surrounding the Excelsiors' grounds in Red Hook does not make it a ballpark in any sense. the Union Grounds had stands, concessions, bathrooms, dressing rooms - and most important: it regularly charged admission - this was the key reason for the fence. the union grounds was the first enclosed baseball grounds in the only significant sense of the word.</span></p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">John&nbsp;Thorn, 4:48 PM:&nbsp;</span></p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">John&nbsp;Thorn, 4:48 PM:&nbsp;</span></p>
<p>[sends image of 1860 game at South Brooklyn Grounds]&nbsp;</p>
<p>[sends image of 1860 game at South Brooklyn Grounds]&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Gilbert, 4:54 PM:&nbsp;</span> &nbsp;</p>
<p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Gilbert, 4:54 PM:&nbsp;</span> &nbsp;</p>
<p>Note the rail fence that might keep a carriage or a horse off the playing field--&nbsp;but not a spectator.</p>
<p>Note the rail fence that might keep a carriage or a horse off the playing field--&nbsp;but not a spectator.</p>
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<div>Still, I think that in the future I'll refrain from referring to the Union Grounds as the "first enclosed park" and go with more enlightening and technically correct phrase "first to regularly charge admission," since, as you note, that is really the more important story.</div>
<div>Still, I think that in the future I'll refrain from referring to the Union Grounds as the "first enclosed park" and go with more enlightening and technically correct phrase "first to regularly charge admission," since, as you note, that is really the more important story.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Thorn&nbsp;,&nbsp;8:52 PM:</span>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Thorn&nbsp;,&nbsp;8:52 PM:</span>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span>&nbsp;</span></div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span>Jerry Casway holds a brief for Camac Woods as "first enclosed"; but first paid admission is indeed the point here.</span></div>
<div>Jerry Casway holds a brief for Camac Woods as "first enclosed"; but first paid admission is indeed the point here.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Richard&nbsp;Hershberger, 7:00 AM, 11/12/21:</span></div>
<div><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Richard&nbsp;Hershberger, 7:00 AM, 11/12/21:</span></div>
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<div><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Jerry Casway, 4:19 PM, 11/13/21:</span></div>
<div><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Jerry Casway, 4:19 PM, 11/13/21:</span></div>
<div><span style="text-decoration: underline;">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div><span style="text-decoration: underline;">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div>Larry, thanks&nbsp;for the first enclosed ballpark debate.&nbsp; in&nbsp;SABR's<span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span> Inventing Baseball</span></span></span> volume(&nbsp; pp.32-3) - the&nbsp;100 greatest games of the nineteenth-century. I discussed the criteria and responded with Camac Woods, 24 July 1860.</div>
<div>Larry, thanks&nbsp;for the current first "enclosed ballpark" debate.&nbsp; in&nbsp;SABR's<span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span> Inventing Baseball</span></span></span> volume(&nbsp; pp.32-3) - the&nbsp;100 greatest games of the nineteenth-century. I discussed the criteria and responded with Camac Woods, 24 July 1860.</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div>&nbsp;</div>
<div><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Bruce Allardice, 7:52 AM, 11/14/21:</span></div>
<div><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Bruce Allardice, 7:52 AM, 11/14/21:</span></div>

Revision as of 09:33, 20 November 2021

Chronologies
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Prominent Milestones

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About the Chronology
Tom Altherr Dedication

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Most Aged

New York All-Stars Beat Brooklyn All-Stars, 2 games to 1; First Admission Fee [A Dime] Charged

Salience Prominent
Tags Antedated Firsts, Business of Baseball, Championship Games, Newspaper Coverage, Post-Knickerbocker Rule Changes
Location Brooklyn NY
City/State/Country: NY, United States
Modern Address 103rd St - Corona Plaza
Game Base Ball
Immediacy of Report Contemporary
Age of Players Adult
Text

"The Great Base Ball Match of 1858, which was a best 2 out of 3 games series, embodies four landmark events that are pivotal to the game's history"

1. It was organized base ball's very first all-star game.

2. It was the first base ball game in the New York metropolitan area to be played on an enclosed ground.

3. It marked the first time that spectators paid for the privilege of attending a base ball game -- a fee of 10 cents gave admission to the grounds.

4. The game played on September 10, 1858 is at present [2005] the earliest known instance of an umpire calling strike on a batter."  The New York Game had adopted the called strike for the 1858 season. It is first known to have been employed (many umpires refused to do so) at a New York vs. Brooklyn all-star game at Fashion Race Course on Long Island. The umpire was D.L. (Doc) Adams of the Knickerbockers, who also chaired the National Association of Base Ball Players Rules Committee.  But see Warning, below.

These games are believed to have been the first the newspapers subjected to complete play-by-play accounts, in the New York Sunday Mercury, July 25, 1858.

The New York side won the series, 2 games to 1.  But Brooklyn was poised to become base ball's leading city.

 

 

Sources

Schaefer, Robert H., "The Great Base Ball Match of 1858: Base Ball's First All-Star Game," Nine, Volume 14, no 1, (2005), pp 47-66. See also Robert Schaefer, "The Changes Wrought by the Great Base Ball Match of 1858," Base Ball Journal, Volume 5, number 1 (Special Issue on Origins), pages 122-126.

Coverage of the game in Porter's Spirit of the Times, July 24, 1858, is reprinted in Dean A. Sullivan, Compiler and Editor, Early Innings: A Documentary History of Baseball, 1825-1908[University of Nebraska Press, 1995], pp. 27-29.  

The Spirit article itself is "The Great Base Ball Match," Spirit of the Times, Volume 28, number 24 (Saturday, July 24, 1858), page 288, column 2. Facsimile provided by Craig Waff, September 2008.

John Thorn, "The All-Star Game You Don't Know", Our Game, http://ourgame.mlblogs.com/2013/07/08/the-all-star-game-you-dont-know/

Thomas Gilbert, How Baseball Happened, ( David R. Godine, 2020) pp 163-168.

For more context, including the fate of the facility, see William Ryczek, Baseball's First Inning, McFarland, 2009), pp. 77-80.

 

See also John Zinn, "The Rivalry Begins: Brooklyn vs. New York", in Inventing Baseball: The 100 Greatest Games of the 19th Century.(SABR, 2013), pp.10-12.

 

Warning

Richard Hershberger (email of 10/6/2014) points out that the Sunday Mercury account of this game's key at bat "makes it clear that they were swinging strikes'[not called strikes].   

Comment

These games were reportedly most intensely-covered base ball event to date-- items on the planning and playing of the "Fashion Race Course" games began during the first week in June. Coverage can be found in both the sporting weeklies (New York Clipper, New York Sunday Mercury, Porter's Spirit Of The Times, The Spirit Of The Times) and several dailies (New York Evening Express, New York Evening Post, New York Herald, New York Tribune). Note --Craig Waff turned up 26 news accounts for the fashion games in Games Tab 1.0: see http://protoball.org/Games_Tab:Greater_New_York_City#date1859-9-7.

The Sunday Mercury's path-breaking play-by-play accounts were probably written by Mercury editor William Cauldwell and are enlivened with colorful language and descriptions, such as describing a batting stance as "remindful of Ajax Defying the lamp-lighter", a satire on the classical sculpture, Ajax Defying the Lightning.

This series of games has also been cited as the source of the oldest known base balls:  "Doubts about the claims made for the 'oldest' baseball treasured as relics have no existence concerning two balls of authenticated history brought to light by Charles De Bost . . . . De Bost is the son of Charles Schuyler De Bost, Captain and catcher for the Knickerbocker Baseball Club in the infancy of the game." The balls were both inscribed with the scores of the Brooklyn - NY Fashion Course Games of July and September 1858. Both balls have odd one-piece covers the leather having been cut in four semi-ovals still in one piece, the ovals shaped like the petals of a flower." Source: 'Oldest Baseballs Bear Date of 1858,' unidentified newspaper clipping, January 21, 1909, held in the origins of baseball file at the Giamatti Center at the HOF.

Richard Hershberger (email of 10/6/2014) points out that the Sunday Mercury account of this game's key at bat "makes it clear that they were swinging strikes'[not called strikes]. 

 

Note: for a 2021 email exchange on claims of base ball "firsts" in this series of games, see Supplemental Text, below. 

 

 

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Query

If this game did not give us the first called strikes, when did such actually appear?

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Comments

<comments voting="Plus" />


 

Tom Shieber; 3;31 PM, 11/11/21:

 The New York Atlas of August 13, 1859, ran a story about the August 2, 1859, baseball game between the Excelsior and Knickerbocker clubs that took place at the former club's grounds in South Brooklyn. (It was after this game that the well-known on-field photo of the two clubs was taken.) In the first paragraph of the story I find the following statement: "There was also a large number of carriages around the enclosure."

I believe that there is the general belief that the Union Grounds in Williamsburgh were the first enclosed baseball grounds. Should we rethink that?     

Tom Gilbert, 4:29 PM:

I don't think so -- the mere existence of a rail fence surrounding or partially surrounding the Excelsiors' grounds in Red Hook does not make it a ballpark in any sense. the Union Grounds had stands, concessions, bathrooms, dressing rooms - and most important: it regularly charged admission - this was the key reason for the fence. the union grounds was the first enclosed baseball grounds in the only significant sense of the word.

John Thorn, 4:48 PM: 

[sends image of 1860 game at South Brooklyn Grounds]  

Gilbert, 4:54 PM:   

Note the rail fence that might keep a carriage or a horse off the playing field-- but not a spectator.

Shieber, 8:34 PM:

Still, I think that in the future I'll refrain from referring to the Union Grounds as the "first enclosed park" and go with more enlightening and technically correct phrase "first to regularly charge admission," since, as you note, that is really the more important story.
 
Thorn , 8:52 PM:   
 
Jerry Casway holds a brief for Camac Woods as "first enclosed"; but first paid admission is indeed the point here.
 
Richard Hershberger, 7:00 AM, 11/12/21:

 Yes, but....  "Enclosed" was the term of art used at the time.  The confusion in the 1859 cite is that this term of art was not yet established.  Jump forward a decade and "enclosed ground" means a board fence.  This usually implied the charging of admission, but not always.  Occasionally it was for privacy.  An example is the Knickerbockers, when they moved from the Elysian Fields to the St. George grounds.  The St. George CC, for that matter, did not usually admit spectators, except for infrequent grand matches. The Olympics of Philadelphia had their own enclosed ground by 1864.  They later started charging admission to match games, but initially this was a privacy fence.  So it is complicated.

On the other hand, that was something of a one-off, its being a cricket ground ordinarily.  This leads to the discussion of why we don't count the Fashion Course as the first.

Bob Tholkes, 7:53 AM, 11/12/21: 

A ballpark for us is a place where baseball is played; even major league parks like the Polo Grounds were built originally for other purposes, and used for other purposes after baseball became their most frequent purpose.​

More than one category of "first" is involved: first enclosure used for baseball, first enclosure built for baseball, first enclosure built for baseball for the purpose of charging admission.
Enclosure also affected play by placing a barrier in the path of the ball, and the fielder, necessitating a ground rule. That may also be of interest to a reader.
 
Jerry Casway, 4:19 PM, 11/13/21:
 
Larry, thanks for the current first "enclosed ballpark" debate.  in SABR's Inventing Baseball volume(  pp.32-3) - the 100 greatest games of the nineteenth-century. I discussed the criteria and responded with Camac Woods, 24 July 1860.
 
Bruce Allardice, 7:52 AM, 11/14/21:
 
I found a photo of Camac Woods, c. 1861, and it shows it had a fence all right--a rail fence, that people could see through or over if they wished. The link to the photo is now in Protoball's entry on Camac.
 
UPSHOT:  While other playing fields may have been partly "enclosed," (perhaps to keep horses and cows and humans to tromp on the grounds?), the 1858 NYC/Brooklyn game appears to stand as the first game that charged admission, opening a door to a promising way to help finance professional clubs.